2012 Olympian and multi-time World Team member Ellis Coleman (Army/WCAP) is, even for him, in a unique spot. On the surface, the situation in which Coleman, 32, finds himself is not all too different from previous eras of his career. This week in Las Vegas, he is set to once again enter a World Team selection tournament as a top contender and, if he should prevail, will be looked upon as one of the country’s best chances for a medal come the actual World Championships in September.
None of that is really groundbreaking material. Obviously.
What is different for Coleman happens to be the weight class. This past winter, Coleman, for the first time in over 12 years, competed in a weight category lighter than 66 kilograms. At the Grand Prix Zagreb Open (Croatia) in February, the longtime Army/World Class Athletes Program representative appeared at 63 kilos, though that weight was adjusted to 65 on the account of a two-kilogram allowance. Nevertheless, it was, in its own way, momentous. That Coleman — a four-time World Teamer, five-time National champ, and coming off of having won the Olympic Trials at 67 — even considered moving down a weight class in light of his age and wealth of career achievements kind of, sort of caught many folks off-guard. It also made a lot of people want to see what that might look like.
The venture south to 63 started off with encouraging results despite a wake-up call early in the tournament. Coleman, as he explains below, struggled to gather his sea legs in the first round of the Zagreb GP, which for him wound up a lopsided loss to ’24 U23 World runner-up Dinislam Bammatov of Russia. That defeat shook Coleman up just enough; but as the tournament continued, the American began feeling pretty good about his body, if not life in general it would seem, and eventually downed two excellent European competitors (Vitalie Eriomenco, MDA and Ziya Babashov, AZE, respectively) on his way to earning a bronze medal. So, not only did Coleman acquit himself impressively in the new weight division, he also managed to come away with his first piece of hardware from the popular Croatian event.
He had also served notice to any and all potential domestic rivals that he would very likely be an enormous problem for them come time for World Team selection, which as of this writing is only mere hours away. This would include the great Ildar Hafizov, who has been Army teammates with Coleman since ’15 and has — as most are indeed well-aware — moved up to 63 for this season after having spent the previous eight at 60. This is not that complicated of a scenario because teammates regularly compete against one another in tournaments big and small. The one unusual issue with Coleman and Hafizov occupying the same battle space is that the latter has all but commandeered the majority of Army practices in recent months. Ildar might not “run the room”, but he without a doubt has been given a very loud voice in it. This is a good thing not only for Army, but for the US program as a whole. However, it is another departure from what has been the norm for Coleman, and another that he has embraced.
That could serve as the summary of the entire interview. Entering this year’s Trials, which is how wrestlers basically measure seasons of their careers, Coleman has adopted a very intentional and “in the moment” philosophy when it comes to wrestling and his life off the mat. A sizable piece to that is the amount of tumult he has endured both recently and long ago, struggles personally and athletically that have brought to him wisdom that extends far beyond how his persona is viewed in a vacuum. To know Coleman is to know an introspective, disciplined, and absurdly-friendly individual whose mental fortitude is exceeded only by his desire to better understand God’s grace and then impart each critical lesson learned on those around him. All of this is his wheelhouse. Coleman is more than a wrestler, or thinker, or leader. He is also a living, breathing example of how to find your feet again after being bounced off the curb. It is why so many listen to what he has to say. And when he talks, topics such as weight classes and tournaments ebb into the background, leaving just enough room to remember that this journey of his has forged much more than a large batch of highlights. It has also helped shape a man of immense character during a period in this sport, in this country, when such a man is terribly difficult to find.
5PM Interview with Ellis Coleman
5PM: There was a lot about the Zagreb “Ranking Series” tournament and we’ll get to that. But how was that kind of trip this time around given the camp, your weight, and where you are at this stage of your career?
Ellis Coleman: It was just different this time. I didn’t have to go seek anyone out at camp or anything. Guys were coming up to me going ‘Coleman, Coleman, Coleman…’ I would get two matches this day, two matches that day. When it comes to match day, a lot of people are hurt, or they want to only go with certain guys, guys they can handle. I understand that for a training regimen, for training plans, but you have to get some good matches in. You have to be able to defeat that mindset, and one way that you do that is by wrestling those matches against tough foreigners in camp. Granted, there are still some nerves going into my mind for having matches against some tough guys, but it’s like Let’s do this, you know?
I was talking about it to Dalton (Roberts) this year and some others on my team, how I have been telling myself – when it comes to both training and competing, and I have never really been good at this — how I am taking it one thing at a time. Because, after this, I don’t know when I am going to be done. Whenever anyone asks me how long I plan to keep competing, I say, I don’t know, I’m taking it one competition at a time. We have been doing crazy workouts because Ildar runs them, and they have been insane. Every single workout has been like the hardest workout of my life. So I am like, You know what? I am going to take it one rep at a time. We go to the track every single Wednesday, and we hate the track. It is a bunch of ropes, a bunch of wrestling, buddy carries, and 400 meter sprints… All types of stuff happen at the track, but I’m like, I am going to take it one lap at a time. If it is a 400 meter sprint, then it is, I am only going to worry about this 400 meter sprint while I’m doing it – because if I worry about the other two sprints we have after it, then I am not going to be able to run hard while doing those. So, if I take care of this one first, when the time comes for the next one, I can dig up the energy. I got that last one, now let me get the energy for this one. The same thing goes for wrestling, one match at a time instead of looking at the whole tournament.
Every single thing that I am doing is one step at a time. It has been working for me a lot this year. I have been living by it and I am going to stick with it. One tournament at a time, one match at a time, one period at a time, one takedown at a time, one minute at a time… Whatever the sequence is. It allows me to be more focused in the moment on what I am trying to do. And once I get done with that sequence, I can move onto the next one and be more focused 100% in that moment instead of wasting so much energy thinking about so many other things, which will just drain you, sap you for the whole tournament. It will sap you for a whole training session, a whole workout.
You would be surprised by how much energy you are capable of finding when you do things this way. My whole career, it had been, Oh, I’ve got this next, or I’ve got that next. Even with life, Oh, I’ve got to take care of this today, I have to do that tomorrow… My schedule is way more hectic now than it has ever been with me going to school and taking 15 credits, my daughters wrestling and competing, me coaching them every single day, me practicing twice a day. I have no time for anything. If I sit there and think about everything that I have to do, I am not going to be as effective or efficient in getting things done. But if I isolate every little thing I have to do one by one, and be in that moment 100%, I am going to get the most out of everything that I do. And it has been working for me beautifully. Never, ever in my life have I been a 4.0 student. The best I had ever done was almost a 3.0, you know? I’m taking 15 credits in college and I have a 4.0 right now – while I have to take care of three kids and train two times a day. If I told you my schedule, it’s just crazy, and I am more effective and efficient now than I have ever been with life. It is just that mindset, that mentality, and with being grateful for having God on my side. Spirituality is a big thing, too, and being in-tune with the Lord. I am truly grateful for everything that has been going on for me and for everything that I’m doing. I have to stay cognizant of those things, though.
5PM: Is this a generational thing? Seems like it might be, but people differ. Everyone has their own customized issues they struggle with it seems like.
EC: Spenser (Mango) and I typically say that if you were born from 2000 and up, that is when it starts to decline. It is just part of society nowadays. You have to go through really hard things. You have to go through hard times to really know who you are as a person. I went through some tough times and don’t wish that on anyone, obviously. But I do think that you learn a lot about yourself that way, and you also learn gratitude. A hard time is different for everyone and is based on someone’s values, what they believe in, and what they truly hold dear in their lives. Something might take a bigger toll on another person than it does you, depending on what their values are. I think that relationship issues can be the hardest thing. I’ve experienced that, and it is really difficult, especially when you have kids. I remember hitting a tough time a couple of years ago. I was just spinning. I was suspended by USADA, with another unit in the Army, and there was just a lot of stuff going on. I had hit rock bottom. I had a gambling addiction, too, and there was just a lot going on. But once I made it out of that, it was like, Man, nothing is going to stop me.
This was the hardest time in my life. I felt at my lowest of lows, I felt like the world was against me and that there was nothing or no one I could turn to. And 99% of the time, you have to answer to your own problem because you are the cause of most of your problems. When you fall into that, you can either stay stuck in there and be a victim, or you can find a way out. But when you find your way out, you realize how strong you are and how much power we hold as human beings. Once I got out of that situation, and looking back on it now, there is nothing that can break me, or break my family. There is nothing that can break us. Once you make it out of that, you realize how deep those bonds are. You see the glues that hold your life together. Spirituality, training, what your goals are – all of those things hold you together. They make you the person that you are. And when you really find out who you are and what your purpose is, you become a really dangerous person.
5PM: This is why people like when you go on the record. Because, you outline problems everyone faces, and they are real, and so people relate to you more. There is no image or something that you are trying to protect. It is part of why you are looked at as a leader.
EC: I was thinking yesterday when I was sitting around and looking at social media. I took a break from social media for six or seven months. It was when I was getting back to really trying to develop my faith and really tie-in with God. I just got back on social media a few months ago and I realized how much time I was wasting and how much I was caring about what other people thought. When you take something like that away, you realize how it is not that valuable. You think that it is more valuable than it is, and you get to see it from a different lens the second time you come back. You know that at any given moment, you can do away with it. You don’t need it, and it doesn’t need you. You don’t have to spend your day looking at that.
On a side note, I was also thinking about yesterday all of the role models who we see. The Jordan Burroughs, the (Kyle) Snyders, the (Kyle) Dakes, all of these great wrestlers, or athletes from other sports. All of these great people. But we always see perfect stuff from them. Like Burroughs, he always makes the perfect post every time on social media. And that’s good. We want to see those from people because it helps kids strive to want to be like them, to become like those great people. But at the same time…
5PM: No way. I want to see someone beat up, battered, and knocked down, and then I want to see them stand back up and talk about what happened.
EC: And that is what came to mind for me – how often do these people talk about their mistakes? How often do we talk about what we go through on a daily basis? Like you said, I want this stuff to be on the record. I want people to see that I’m normal, that I’m just like them. I saw an Allen Iverson interview and he was like, You may think that I’m different by the way I look and the way I dress, but I’m just like you. What is more relatable to a kid who is trying to be a great athlete than seeing adversity? You know? Like, Oh, this Ellis Coleman went through this, this, and that, and he’s talking about it. Meanwhile, I’m going through all of these problems, too. So, he’s not perfect, he’s just like me. And he is still capable of doing what he’s doing. But people don’t do that. You want people to see the nice stuff about you on social media but you don’t want them to see the struggles. If you really want kids to dial in and understand what it takes to be like you, then let them see your flaws. It is hard to do that in an era when everyone’s a critic and there are a lot of people who want to bring you down. They want to point fingers and say, Yeah, I knew he was messed up. But who cares? We don’t care what people think, right? If we’re being true to ourselves, then let’s show them the truth.
5PM: So let’s talk about the weight a little bit, 63 kg and all that.
EC: I forgot to tell you, when I made 65 kg for Zagreb, it should not have been too bad, you know? I was not doing it the same way that I am now for 63, but that first cut to 65? I was telling Spenser how after that first match in the tournament (against Dinislam Bammatov), I was like, Whoa. Whoa. I don’t know how or why, but it hit me kind of hard. I think that is why I decided that, for 63, to make weight early. I got lucky enough at the Ranking Series tournament in that after I lost, I had all day to sit back and wait to see if I was going to stay in the tournament. I was able to sit around and recover, to rehydrate, and I didn’t have to wrestle again for another few hours. By that time, I had one match against Moldova (Eriomenco). I felt good. Way better than in the first match. Then I had another break until the medal rounds and I started feeling better. I had actually noticed that I was feeling better throughout the day. After my last match, I felt like I was capable to still keep wrestling hard. Harder than I did in my other matches. Everything is a learning process.
5PM: How about your legs?
EC: That was the problem in my first match, my legs. I didn’t have any legs. I’m a cardio type of wrestler and I was like, Man, I don’t have any power in my legs. Spenser asked me, “What’s going on?” I said that the guy had felt really, really strong. I knew that I was down a weight, but no one should feel that strong, and this dude felt super strong. I know now that it was because of my legs and that I hadn’t wrestled that low in quite a while. But I got used to it after making weight, and then at the camp my weight was relatively low and I got better as time went on. Then I started training at a lower weight and have been doing so ever since. You slowly start to pick up on those things and gain those things as you spend more time doing it. It has been getting better. Everything has been getting better, so I’m really excited.
5PM: Did you jump on a scale at Zagreb after the tournament was over?
Ellis Coleman: Yeah, I think I got up to 70 kilos. But once we started the training camp, my weight naturally started coming back down. My weight was coming down to between 68 and 66 kilos, so it would fluctuate. Then once we came back to the States, it started getting lower and lower because I was training twice a day. You get better at managing your weight the more you train at or near your weight. Your body gets used to it. You naturalize your body at being small. I had to train myself to do that for 63 – especially for 63, since I have not been that low since 2012. Like right now, I can’t imagine weighing what I do, which is 65 kilos, and feeling normal. I mean, there were times when I was wrestling 67 – although I was sometimes small at 67 – and as I would get close to weight, I’d feel a little tired, a little lightheaded. There are ways to train your body to get low. For instance, if I got up to 67 right now, I’d feel full. I’d have a really, really full stomach from water and from eating a lot of food. But there were times when I was making that weight and it wasn’t like that. It’s crazy how your body can adapt to those things.
5PM: It is not about making the weight as much as it is about how you feel competing at the weight. How you feel biomechanically. You are going against a lighter class of opponent, so the dynamics are different and how they feel is a little different compared to 67. They are not only lighter, but guys are quicker, too.
EC: 100%. I can feel that with the lighter guys. More movement, a lot more cardio involved. At 67, there is more power. There is cardio, too, but definitely more strength and power involved than at 63. But when I lost to Bammatov at the Ranking Series tournament, I was dumbfounded. For a while, I was watching videos of him because it was like, There’s no way someone could beat me like this. But then I had a talk with Coach (Bryan) Medlin. He said, “That’s good. I understand that you want to beat him, but don’t idolize the guy. Make sure that you’re not putting him that high on a pedestal to where you think he’s better than what he is.” He was absolutely right and I told him that. But I just had a hard time picturing myself losing like that to someone, even though I was probably one of the tougher matches that he had at that tournament. After a while, I came to the realization that, You know what? You went down to the weight for the first time and it was going to be tough regardless. Snap out of it, get your head out of your butt, because you know that you can beat that guy next time you wrestle him. So I watched a little video on him and the more I started training, the more I started to feel like, Nah, he’s just a regular person like everyone else. Then I watched the European Championships at 60, 63, and 67 and saw a lot of things out of those guys I might want to try.
5PM: Yeah, don’t get me wrong, it was startling. I mean, when was the last time you lost to someone internationally and it wasn’t a close decision? It had been a long time.
EC: (Laughs) Yeah, that’s why it bothered me for a long time. Like, There’s no way someone can beat me like this! But it was a really, really tough tournament and that is a really tough guy to face right out of the gate – and that’s what I need to prepare for. That’s actually the best thing that could have happened to me because it channeled how I want to feel when I get down to weight. I don’t want to ever feel like that again, you know? That’s why I’m doing what I’m doing. It couldn’t have been any better for me, to have gone through something like that.
5PM: Oh, great way to look at it.
EC: Yeah, because when I go to Worlds, I am going to have those guys in the first match. That’s why I’m doing what I’m doing, and in the way that I’m doing it. That way, I feel like how I should feel in my first match. I want to come out of the gate on fire. And even if I don’t, I want to give myself the best chance at doing that. Getting down to weight the first time, it had been many years but I don’t think that’s the way to do it. That is why I have managed to do it this way, so I’m ready for my very first match. I don’t care who they call to the mat against me, I’m ready.
5PM: Ildar (Hafizov) is basically a player-coach this year and has been running a lot of practices, workouts, and training guys. Is there any awkwardness between you two given you both are in the same weight now?
EC: Hmmm, yeah. I think so, because we really have not trained with each other. He hasn’t wrestled with me at all in practice. You know, Ildar and I have been on a lot of Teams together, so we’re pretty close. I’m a business guy, too. I’ve been there before. Like with Ray-Ray (RaVaughn Perkins), when we had to wrestle each other, we were always good friends. Ildar and I are good friends, but I have been kind of to the side. I take advice from him coaching-wise because he runs really good training. He gives me really good advice and it has been helping me out a lot. But on the friendship side? It’s business now. There is not much I can talk to you about if it’s not pertaining to wrestling.
And then #2, it is hard for me to wrestle someone and want to kill them when my heart is involved and I’m really good friends with them. That is why I have had to take myself to the side and not press that as much, not emphasize the friendship as much, until after this tournament is over. If it’s not pertaining to wrestling or our workouts, there is not really much for me to say because I need him to know that this is business now.
5PM: Is some of this influenced as well by Alex (Sancho), having had to navigate that with him for a few years following him joining the Army?
Ellis Coleman: Oh, yeah. Heck yeah. With Sancho, too. That is prior experience. We were in the same room wrestling with each other all of the time. That was the #1 thing. When he first came to our room, my idea was to try and kick his ass every single day so he knows not to mess with me. I felt like it personally kind of helped him out to learn my timing and how to weather the storm. I’m a pace pusher, so whatever he could do to figure me out. Then that very next year, he beat me in the Olympic Trials finals. So I was like, You know what? Next time coming around, I am not going to train with him as much. Then the suspension happened, and it actually worked out for me because I was gone and he was not seeing me. He hadn’t wrestled me in three years, so it was like him wrestling a new guy.
When I came back to the room, I didn’t wrestle with him, I didn’t do anything. The first time he was going to see me was going to be at the Olympic Trials. Fast-forward to the ’24 Olympic Trials and there was nothing for him to be used to because I was not in that room. I was gone for a while. So it is kind of the same thing. Make it business. I have to do what I have to do to make sure that I am capable of winning and comfortable with whatever is necessary to win the match. That is all I have been doing. There are still other guys in the weight I have to wrestle. I have to take it one pace at a time. Whoever it is, I will focus on them when I have to wrestle them. Then once I get to Ildar, I will focus on him when that time comes.
5PM: Is it better for you that there has not been another competition between Zagreb and this tournament? Would you have wanted something else between the events?
EC: I don’t know. I’m an optimist, so whatever situation I have, I try to find a reason for it to be the best situation for me. That is the only way to look at it, especially when you are training and competing all year round. I think that Zagreb was really good, going out to the camp and wrestling with those guys. Coming back and decompressing for a little bit. We would have had Armed Forces (in February). It is not much, but it is still competition. But we have been doing a lot of eight-day camps at WCAP. Just eight days straight of intense training followed by two or three days of tapering, then another eight day camp. We have been doing that on and off since Zagreb, We had one National Team camp after we came back from Zagreb, and then we started with an eight-day camp.
The camps have been really, really good. I think it is better the way that we have been doing it. We have been implementing matches, competition days, a lot of “bull in the ring”. It has been really tough. I think that just for me, rest has been good considering how old I am and how banged up I get sometimes. Going into a tournament healthy is really hard for me to do these days but I’m pretty healthy right now. I’m happy.
5PM: There are young guys who have recently come into WCAP, such as Alston Nutter, for example. I brought you up to him on the record. You have increasingly grown into a leader and you are recognized as the athlete leader of the National Team. What do you like about being seen this way, as a guy other athletes look up to?
EC: I love it. I have kids, so I think being a father plays a role, and my kids are athletes, too. But we’re around each other so often. Most of us wrestlers see each other more than we see our own families from going on these trips and doing all of these things together. We develop a bond with each other and I think that going through hard things together – cutting weight, the competitions, the wins and losses – all of those are things that draw you closer to one another. And when you see that, you want to find ways to help develop those people so they don’t have to go through pain. You want the best for them and you want to get the best out of them. I’ve been around these guys for quite some time and I know that the best way to do that is to lead by example. To keep being myself. I’m a fun guy and I like to work hard, too. I think that getting them to have that fight mentality, pushing them to have a positive mindset, the least they can do is look to the left or right of them to see where I’m at. Like, Ellis is doing this, and he’s old. But look at the mindset he has. Give them the energy and courage, and desire, to do the same thing that I’m doing. Let’s all be on the same page. Let’s do it together and let’s win.
That is kind of where we’re at right now. We’re developing our foundation. It’s crazy, because when results come up, there is always a need for change. It has been this way throughout all of these quads. I’ve been around for four quads and it is just change, change, change. Constant change. And I think that develops a crazy atmosphere. It gets hectic because then there is an initiation of a new team leader, or a new National Team coach, and then everything is in shambles for a period of time. Because, every time you heard “change”, you think it’s the worst. You think that you’re doing something wrong. I just don’t want all of the guys thinking, Man, what are we doing wrong? just because we’re constantly talking about change. You might think that we’re not doing something right, but it’s not about what we’re doing wrong. It is about what we can do to improve and to, as a group collectively, maintain our foundation, what we stand for, and our purpose.
I think developing that bond is huge and Coach (Matt) Lindland was big on that. It becomes a domino effect if everyone is on the same page and everyone is buying in. We’re trying to get everyone to buy in and trust is the biggest thing on all levels, from coaches down to the athletes. I know that all of the guys trust me, so I want to make sure that I am saying the right things and that none of our guys are being walked over by any of the chain of command that we have, whether it is USA Wrestling or the coaching, or whatever. That way, they can be able to have the trust necessary to train at the level they want to train at. I think that when we had that first summit during winter camp, it went really well and developing trust was the biggest topic. We have really moved forward with that. Now the only thing is sticking with our plan and making sure that everyone is buying-in. And so far, so good. WCAP, we all have been on the same page. We have no choice. We’re in the military and so we all have the same values and the same mission; and now, as a National program, it is about implementing all of the clubs together when we have these camps. We used to hate camps before. I’m starting to like them now. The trust is there now. There are no grievances or animosity when we go there (to the Olympic Training Center). It is like, Let’s go. Let’s work hard. Let’s train hard and compete hard. And whatever happens, happens.
5PM: How has coaching kids a lot this year influenced or added to your own perceptions of being an athlete?
Ellis Coleman: Coaching helps a lot. You see the sport from a different lens and it is good to be able to step back and understand that. You get so selfish, and you kind of have to be when you’re training for Olympic and World achievements. It is really hard to see anything else because you want to focus on whatever it takes to make the best version of yourself. But when I can see my own kids as well as the kids from the youth club (Betterman Elite) go through things that I have myself been through before, you witness how tough it can be on them and you notice all of the ways that you dealt with those things before. But since you can see it, you begin to figure out ways for yourself to deal with these things. You know that you have been through it before, and you grow a love for coaching. You grow a passion for it because you know that what they are facing are things you have been through before.
You can’t do everything 100% right, which is why it is good to have more than one coach. But kids love to have someone who is doing the same thing as them, and having that person pouring into them. That helps build a bigger bond, as well. They love that. They keep coming to you, they ask questions, they want private lessons, and so forth. The one thing about kids is that they don’t see any flaws in you. They think that you’re the best person in the world, whether that is as an athlete, a coach, or a parent. And that makes you feel good. It makes you want to keep doing what you’re doing and find more ways to do it.
I find myself doing the same thing with our kids. When I see them wrestling matches and lose, I am watching video on them and I’m talking to them, telling them what they need to work on and pushing them in practice. The mental factor is the biggest thing for me. I think that is why I excel a lot, and I think that is where I can get the most out of the kids just as human beings. If I can channel the way they think and the way that they believe in themselves, then everything else afterwards is going to follow suit. They will be able to develop their wrestling better and faster, and they will be better people. I constantly talk to them about the mental factor, the adversity. When you see the growth in that, it really hits your heart and makes you feel good because you know that, one day, they will look back and know that what they went through with you as their coach was worth it, and how what you taught helped them. And then hopefully, they pass that along when they get older.
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