Not that it is a competition, but Max Black (60 kg, NYAC/NTS) has to be one of the easiest athletes for any writer or journalist to cover. He doesn’t mince words and is thoroughly (and casually) descriptive either when reflecting on recent performances, discussing training plans, or opining with regards to future opportunities. He is also hilarious, albeit sometimes his comedic offerings are, on his part, unintentional. It is because Black does not effort to filter his perspectives.
Yes, he has a penchant for trash talk, and there are times when he has purposely taken aim at fellow competitors both to irritate them and, as one might assume, to entertain himself and his teammates. But even when Black is simply explaining in-match tactics and sequences, and with his voice betraying zero hints of brashness, the verbiage can still come off as slightly acid-tongued. His objective in such instances is not to tear down others, it is more that he cannot help but to dismiss any and all pretense when sharing how or why he did this or that against a given opponent. If you ask Black a question that includes the words “feel” or “feeling”, then be prepared. He is going to walk you through his brain space from that moment as if in real-time without holding anything back. And people love him for it. The band of maniacs from NMU who share mat space with him certainly do.
And that is part of the premise for this latest Q&A with Black — who just over a week ago claimed the 60 kilogram spot on the 2025 United States World Team. It was an achievement for which Black had tirelessly and devoutly worked ever since arriving on campus at Northern Michigan in the fall of ’21. An enormous, important milestone for him — as well as for the program itself. When Black got past Zane Richards (TMWC/IRTC) in two matches at the World Team Trials on April 26, he became the first lightweight from NMU to make a Senior World roster dating back to ’18, when Dalton Roberts (Army/WCAP) took the crown (also at 60 kg).
Later on during the evening of the 26th, ’24 Olympian Payton Jacobson (87 kg, NYAC/NTS) prevailed in his own best-of-three series, thereby giving Northern Michigan University multiple World Team members for the first time since ’09. Black, who has become one of NMU’s primary athlete-leaders alongside Jacobson, is understandably enthused with regards to these matters, and he is just as thrilled with the direction Northern Michigan University is headed thanks to a family-oriented team culture that he has helped solidify.
As such, you are getting a full dose of Max Black in this piece. Topics include his victory at the World Team Trials (of course), his thoughts on making the World Team with Jacobson, his brother (and brand new NMU’er) Otto Black‘s stellar Trials showing, and what he is most interested in when it comes to the Pan-Am Championships (which begin this coming Thursday from Monterey, Mexico).
Max Black — 60 kg, NYAC/NTS
5PM: You had clearly been knocking on the door after having made several age-group World rosters plus the Senior National Team last year at the Olympic Trials. Plus, you took a match from Ildar (Hafizov) at the 2024 World Team Trials and you also took a match from Dalton (Roberts) in Croatia. Winning this Trials, did it feel natural after all of this momentum you had built?
Max Black: Yeah, I definitely felt like this was my year to make the Team. You know, I go into every tournament thinking that I should definitely win the whole thing, but this past year it felt like it was my time and I was sick of these guys beating me. I came into this tournament a little different. I was a little more confident, especially since I have been at this the last few years. I also saw it as just another tournament, to put my best out there, and I think I did pretty well.
I go into every tournament thinking that I am going to win it, that I’m going to be the best one out there. I walk around and everyone sees it. Everyone sees that I think I’m the best, and so on, but it really showed last weekend. I was pretty excited and happy with how I performed, especially with this being my first Senior Team. It’s sick. It was good stuff.
5PM: You cannot worry about others because you have to do your job, but it must feel pretty special to make this World Team with Payton, and also due to the fact that (Kaden) Ercanbrack stepped up and made the National Team.
MB: It was super-special for Payton and I to make it together. We’re together 24/7. We do everything together. We live together. We’ve been living together for the past year and he really helped me out with this. We had a little deal. At first, he was paying for all of our groceries. We made a deal last year after the Olympic Trials. He had said, “Once you make the Senior Team next year, we’re going to start splitting it, but you’re going to be on my diet.” It meant a lot to make this Team, so now I can help him out a little more like he helped me. I can’t thank him enough for him that one.
But yeah, we showed out, and I expected us to. And Kaden, he’s a killer. Not a lot of people realize this but, in the practice room, he gives me tough matches. Really hard matches. He is a super-solid wrestler. Very solid. He works really, really hard, too. I don’t think a lot of people realize that or knew that about him, but he wrestles hard. He is just solid. He doesn’t mess around at all, so I wasn’t surprised that he made National Team at this World Team Trials. I’m super-pumped for him that he finally got out of his comfort zone and did the thing. It was really cool to see. It was.
5PM: You know Otto better than anyone. You know the kind of ability he has and you’ve been practicing with him. Did you have any advice for him going into this tournament?
MB: I don’t think I gave him much advice. In Croatia, Benji (Peak) and I talked to him like, Hey, it will be your first Senior National tournament, you’re not going to go out there and hit all of these moves on these guys. You’re going to have to win the middle and really hand-fight. It’s not going to be like U20. And he realized that in Croatia wrestling Vitalie Eriomenco from Moldova, who is a beast of a wrestler. We were in Croatia working on that stuff; then we got back here to Northern and Andy (Bisek) is very solid with hand-fighting and all that stuff. So we made sure that he was working on his hand-fighting more than his moves, and it is opening up his moves a lot more.
I didn’t have to give him too many tips. He knows how to wrestle and his technique is good. He went up a weight class and got super-big from lifting with us, eating with us… He is living with Payton and I now. It’s kind of chaos at this moment because we have a really small apartment and we have Otto and Landon Drury living with us right now. It’s just chaos (laughs). But no, I didn’t have to give him any advice really. Just, Work on what you need to work on, make sure that your technique is good, and get stronger to compete with these older guys. I think he realized that and I think it helped him make the move to Northern.
5PM: Right, and I was going to mention that because Northern has you, Payton, Landon, Kaden, now your brother, plus plenty of others who are developing very strongly. Can you see this how this looks from the outside, what you guys have been building there over the past few years? Like Otto might have been influenced by what he can do competitively, but it’s also the culture. Do you see how this all might look attractive to a 17 or 18-year-old?
Max Black: Oh yeah. The culture here is insane. You don’t even need to make friends when you get here because you already have all of us in the wrestling room. We’re all brothers. We’re a family. The culture here is unreal. Anyone new moves in with us so easily. It is easy to talk around us and hang out with us because we all have the same motives. We all want to be World Champions. If you come here with that same attitude, you’re going to fit in very well.
5PM: Obviously, there was no previous Greco video of Zane (Richards) for you to look at before the finals. Knowing you, I doubt that you looked at his previous matches from the tournament…
MB: I did not.
5PM: But at least with knowing his background, was there anything on your mind prior to the final that you thought you might have to adjust to as far as his posture, his hand-fighting, and so forth?
MB: No, my goal, honestly, was to make him wrestle Greco. Wrestling him, I knew that I was going to be tired. Those freestyle and folkstyle guys have a hard pace. They are going to hang on your head a lot and hand-fight super-hard with you, but I wanted to make him wrestle my style a little bit, make him wrestle real Greco, and not let him call the match. I wanted to make it a greasy match in Greco, which is how I like to wrestle.
So I knew that if I wrestled that way, he couldn’t do anything. I wanted to put him in weird positions that he didn’t like to be in. I’m not going to lie, the whole match he was wrestling me really hard, and hand-fighting with me really hard. But I never really felt in danger, honestly. Like, at all. I never felt like I was going to get scored on or anything. On the feet if I needed to take a breath, I’d put him in an S-grip bodylock position. I would never do that with anyone from Europe or Asia because they are too good there. But I knew if I did that against him, put him in those positions, that I would be able to slow him down to where he doesn’t want to wrestle at that pace, or that he might try to do something stupid. The technique just wasn’t there. He is used to freestyle, folkstyle. I was putting him in positions where I felt like he wasn’t dangerous, or where I was more dangerous than him, and I could feel in these positions that he didn’t want to be there with me. Like I could feel with my underhooks, Okay, he’s trying to bait me to throw me. So then it was, Well, he’s not going to throw me, this is where I live.
I wanted to put him in Greco positions so that he couldn’t hang on my head or hand-fight me super-hard. It was, I’ll just slow him down real quick, get my underhooks, and make him wrestle Greco. Same with par terre. I knew if I got on top first that I was going to score some points; and when he got on top of me, it was like, Okay, this is going to be a nice break (laughs). I knew that he wasn’t going to turn me or anything. I saw all of these articles about how he has a good gutwrench and stuff, but I didn’t feel it or anything. Honestly, I didn’t feel in danger at all in par terre. And anywhere on the feet, it was just him running at me for six minutes and trying to get me super-tired, but I was in good shape. Like, really good shape. I wasn’t going to get tired or gas-out, or anything. I’m too good positionally. I could just see that he wasn’t dangerous in some of these positions that I was putting him in and he didn’t want to be there with me.
5PM: The Pan-Am Championships is an important tournament, a cornerstone tournament for us.
MB: Right.
5PM: Some years, given its place on the schedule, it also almost acts as a baseline event preceding the full training cycle for the World Championships. You want to win every tournament, so let’s get that out the way. What are you interested most in with regards to the Pan-Ams, especially since you’re just coming off of the Trials?
Max Black: Honestly, right now, it’s mainly the World Championships and LA (2028). It’d be nice to win this tournament and I think I will, and I want to perform there. I’ve only been to the Pan-Ams once but that was at U20 and I didn’t really perform my best. I’m still training really hard right now. I haven’t taken any time off since after Trials, so I would really like to win this thing, especially since it is a Senior Pan-Ams. I’ve thought about this. I remember that I was thinking about it last year like, Dang, this would be a really cool tournament to win. It’s a Senior Pan-American tournament, you know? It is the continental championships. It is going to be a hard tournament. Even though it is the Pan-Ams, it is still going to be a really hard tournament.
My main focus is obviously the Worlds and LA right now, so if I don’t win it, then it will be, Okay, this gives me stuff to work on. But if I do win this tournament, then I get to see my flaws and where I could have excelled better in my matches. I’m seeing this as a learning tournament, to see what I need to work on before Azerbaijan. I’ll probably take a few days off from wrestling after this tournament just before leaving for Azerbaijan but still work out to stay in-shape. But yeah, I’m super-excited for it and I can’t wait to see how I do against Senior guys on the continental level and at the World level. I think it is going to be a super-fun tournament and I’m really excited.
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